Comments on: A Software Engineer’s Guide To Speaking With Non-Technical Managers http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers Analysis Driven Personal Development Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:53:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sid Savara http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-3482 Sid Savara Mon, 02 Mar 2009 09:34:12 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-3482 Hi Tony,<br>Thanks for your comment. I agree with your insight - presenting more options<br>is definitely better! Hi Tony,
Thanks for your comment. I agree with your insight – presenting more options
is definitely better!

]]> By: Tony Austin http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-3481 Tony Austin Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:54:37 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-3481 Nice summary, Sid! The only thing I can think of adding is that sometimes it's a good idea to present MULTIPLE alternatives solutions, and point out which one you think is best (maybe also adding the pros and cons of each alternative). If you only come up with a single solution, this might not be possible/acceptable/appropriate for the manager to act on, for any of a number of reasons. Nice summary, Sid! The only thing I can think of adding is that sometimes it's a good idea to present MULTIPLE alternatives solutions, and point out which one you think is best (maybe also adding the pros and cons of each alternative). If you only come up with a single solution, this might not be possible/acceptable/appropriate for the manager to act on, for any of a number of reasons.

]]> By: Sid Savara http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-646 Sid Savara Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:34:12 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-646 Hi Tony,<br>Thanks for your comment. I agree with your insight - presenting more options<br>is definitely better! Hi Tony,
Thanks for your comment. I agree with your insight – presenting more options
is definitely better!

]]> By: Tony Austin http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-645 Tony Austin Mon, 02 Mar 2009 01:54:37 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-645 Nice summary, Sid! The only thing I can think of adding is that sometimes it's a good idea to present MULTIPLE alternatives solutions, and point out which one you think is best (maybe also adding the pros and cons of each alternative). If you only come up with a single solution, this might not be possible/acceptable/appropriate for the manager to act on, for any of a number of reasons. Nice summary, Sid! The only thing I can think of adding is that sometimes it's a good idea to present MULTIPLE alternatives solutions, and point out which one you think is best (maybe also adding the pros and cons of each alternative). If you only come up with a single solution, this might not be possible/acceptable/appropriate for the manager to act on, for any of a number of reasons.

]]> By: gsempe http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-633 gsempe Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:26:44 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-633 Very nice and clear advices for new software engineers. I tweet your post:<br><a href="https://twitter.com/gsempe/status/1261599426" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/gsempe/status/1261599426</a> Very nice and clear advices for new software engineers. I tweet your post:
https://twitter.com/gsempe/status/1261599426

]]> By: Larry Kyrala http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-628 Larry Kyrala Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:38:48 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-628 @Scott: "A manager is not someone who wants to be technical but can't. They're often lawyers, sales people, and, in general, deal makers, and it works for them. Respect that."<br><br>No. No, I don't have to respect that on it's face value any more than they would respect me walking into a court room or a board room and telling them how to run their business without the slightest clue of legal or business matters. Quite frankly this is the arrogant attitude that needs to be changed. We all come to the table with different skills and domains of expertise, and we should be able to work together, but to do that we have to open a dialogue with each other, not simply dictate ignorantly from on high.<br><br>"By being obstinate, pig headed, willfully uncooperative, and by flaunting their ignorance, they're using a very good strategy.. often, management is smarter than you think."<br><br>No, this type of manager just *thinks* they are being smart. Because of their skewed ethics, they believe that their workers would never tell them the truth up front, they are just lazy and exaggerate; they need to be "parented" or "motivated" to do any real work (see my comment on "trust"). In reality they've just made everyone's life (including their own) more difficult. Political manipulation and deception ("slash and burn") can make someone look good at the cost of everyone around them, but is it sustainable? And what are the hidden costs?<br><br>Software engineers usually do what they do because they love to solve problems, but burn-out and dissatisfaction are more than cliches... a whole generation of people gave up big parts of their lives for many things that don't exist anymore by following "wheelers and dealers"... and that generation has directly (or through example) advised nearly everyone they know to get out of IT. ("It's a cost center" "You're a dime a dozen, offshore or Intern will replace you at half the cost" "There's no career path" "You have to choose between career and personal life") <br><br>Does that sound like a healthy industry? Does it sound sustainable? Should it be emulated or admired as a management tactic? @Scott: “A manager is not someone who wants to be technical but can't. They're often lawyers, sales people, and, in general, deal makers, and it works for them. Respect that.”

No. No, I don't have to respect that on it's face value any more than they would respect me walking into a court room or a board room and telling them how to run their business without the slightest clue of legal or business matters. Quite frankly this is the arrogant attitude that needs to be changed. We all come to the table with different skills and domains of expertise, and we should be able to work together, but to do that we have to open a dialogue with each other, not simply dictate ignorantly from on high.

“By being obstinate, pig headed, willfully uncooperative, and by flaunting their ignorance, they're using a very good strategy.. often, management is smarter than you think.”

No, this type of manager just *thinks* they are being smart. Because of their skewed ethics, they believe that their workers would never tell them the truth up front, they are just lazy and exaggerate; they need to be “parented” or “motivated” to do any real work (see my comment on “trust”). In reality they've just made everyone's life (including their own) more difficult. Political manipulation and deception (“slash and burn”) can make someone look good at the cost of everyone around them, but is it sustainable? And what are the hidden costs?

Software engineers usually do what they do because they love to solve problems, but burn-out and dissatisfaction are more than cliches… a whole generation of people gave up big parts of their lives for many things that don't exist anymore by following “wheelers and dealers”… and that generation has directly (or through example) advised nearly everyone they know to get out of IT. (“It's a cost center” “You're a dime a dozen, offshore or Intern will replace you at half the cost” “There's no career path” “You have to choose between career and personal life”)

Does that sound like a healthy industry? Does it sound sustainable? Should it be emulated or admired as a management tactic?

]]> By: Sid Savara http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-622 Sid Savara Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:46:10 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-622 LOL public castration!! Ouch!<br>Perhaps the dig at managers not knowing RAM was a bit harsh ;). Though I<br>*have* met people who were in roles that involved some level of leadership<br>over technical folks who didn't know what RAM was (other than it was a<br>number, and more of it was better). None of the managers mentioned in the<br>anecdote at the beginning of this article match that criteria though ;) LOL public castration!! Ouch!
Perhaps the dig at managers not knowing RAM was a bit harsh ;). Though I
*have* met people who were in roles that involved some level of leadership
over technical folks who didn't know what RAM was (other than it was a
number, and more of it was better). None of the managers mentioned in the
anecdote at the beginning of this article match that criteria though ;)

]]> By: Sid Savara http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-620 Sid Savara Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:42:09 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-620 Hi Pete,<br>Thanks for your comment! I see where you're coming from with regards to<br>some managers not looking out for the best interest of their team. In my<br>case, I cherry picked a couple of managers I've had that I felt were really<br>solid, and genuinely looked out for the well-being of developers ;)<br><br>As you point out though, that doesn't mean all managers are as motivated to<br>watch out for their subordinates! Hi Pete,
Thanks for your comment! I see where you're coming from with regards to
some managers not looking out for the best interest of their team. In my
case, I cherry picked a couple of managers I've had that I felt were really
solid, and genuinely looked out for the well-being of developers ;)

As you point out though, that doesn't mean all managers are as motivated to
watch out for their subordinates!

]]> By: Sid Savara http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-621 Sid Savara Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:40:10 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-621 Wow Scott, thank you for your insight and the time you took to reply!<br>I read the whole thing. I agree with many of your points, and I think you<br>did an effective job of pointing out where our opinions differ. I think<br>both of us are coming at this based on the experience we have, and perhaps<br>in time I'll find I agree with more of your points and vice versa. For<br>example, in some cases our deadlines were hard deadlines given to us based<br>on deals that had been made outside the company - the software had to<br>accommodate new types of data. Of course, nobody died if this didn't happen<br>- but it wasn't always just a date thrown on the wall. I agree with your<br>larger point though, that deadlines aren't always as firm as they seem, and<br>in some cases may be completely fabricated.<br><br>I do like the point you make that there are still very bad managers out<br>there. I think that can't be overstated - sometimes, regardless of what we<br>do, we can't everyone and we can't please everyone.<br><br>Thank you again for adding to the discussion and providing such a thoughtful<br>response. Sometimes people come here and write personal attacks, which (as<br>you can imagine) I don't enjoy. I do enjoy reading well considered<br>dissenting opinions though. I very much appreciate it. Wow Scott, thank you for your insight and the time you took to reply!
I read the whole thing. I agree with many of your points, and I think you
did an effective job of pointing out where our opinions differ. I think
both of us are coming at this based on the experience we have, and perhaps
in time I'll find I agree with more of your points and vice versa. For
example, in some cases our deadlines were hard deadlines given to us based
on deals that had been made outside the company – the software had to
accommodate new types of data. Of course, nobody died if this didn't happen
- but it wasn't always just a date thrown on the wall. I agree with your
larger point though, that deadlines aren't always as firm as they seem, and
in some cases may be completely fabricated.

I do like the point you make that there are still very bad managers out
there. I think that can't be overstated – sometimes, regardless of what we
do, we can't everyone and we can't please everyone.

Thank you again for adding to the discussion and providing such a thoughtful
response. Sometimes people come here and write personal attacks, which (as
you can imagine) I don't enjoy. I do enjoy reading well considered
dissenting opinions though. I very much appreciate it.

]]> By: Larry Kyrala http://sidsavara.com/personal-development/a-software-engineers-guide-to-speaking-with-non-technical-managers/comment-page-1#comment-618 Larry Kyrala Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:33:42 +0000 http://sidsavara.com/?p=764#comment-618 Thanks Sid. I think the essential issue between a worker and their manager is one of trust. Many times a non-technical manager feels like a non-car person taking their car to the mechanic... it's pretty hard to develop trust when the cost and time estimates are exceeded. Maybe this is because the driver never changed their oil, OR maybe it's because the mechanic is a crook. Trying to figure out which is which isn't easy. I don't think the manager necessarily needs to understand all the "moving parts" -- but they do need to understand the basics in order to be able to trust their team. Thanks Sid. I think the essential issue between a worker and their manager is one of trust. Many times a non-technical manager feels like a non-car person taking their car to the mechanic… it's pretty hard to develop trust when the cost and time estimates are exceeded. Maybe this is because the driver never changed their oil, OR maybe it's because the mechanic is a crook. Trying to figure out which is which isn't easy. I don't think the manager necessarily needs to understand all the “moving parts” — but they do need to understand the basics in order to be able to trust their team.

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